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Re: [E-devel] Continuing the website saga

On Wed, 20 Sep 2006 16:59:10 -0700 Ben Rockwood <benr@cuddletech.com> babbled:

well the plan for now is dependent on when e.org moves.

what i have noticed is we have a fairly big "i dont like xsm" camp. the biggest
complaints are ui and speed. frankly adding a news item should take no more
than 5 seconds or so (excluding writing the item itself). if we cant manage
that - it likely will continue to be a problem.

a cms was put there because cvs access to do the www site meant that very few
had access and would/could bother with it. i wanted to take load off ben's
plate and make things easier for more people to work together. so far it hasn't
turned out too well.

sf.net hasn't helped with slowness and limiting " of db's we can have, write
access to the www tree from the cgi etc. etc.

i am willing to entertain alternatives to xsm. sorry ben - but hacking html
files isn't going to scale to get others involved. but how can we get "close"
to that? a wiki might be more manageable in this sense - but which wiki? and
what about all the other things we want (bug tracking, forums etc. etc.)...

does anyone know of something that does the whole list of things we have
mentioned we need - in one package that is solid and easy to use, reliable,
efficient, secure etc.?

> Michael Jennings wrote:
> > On Wednesday, 20 September 2006, at 10:51:36 (-0700),
> > Ben Rockwood wrote:
> >
> >   
> >> I've made it clear over the years that so long as we're using
> >> Rectang XSM I won't touch the site.  I used it a couple of times and
> >> the frustration, speed, and capabilities of XSM are totally
> >> inexcusable.  I have a great respect for HandyAndE and mean no
> >> disrespect to him, but so long as XSM is in place I'm not touching
> >> it anymore.
> >>     
> >
> > So basically you'll only help if things are done the way you want them
> > to be.  "My way, or the highway."
> >
> > I think that attitude speaks for itself.
> Michael, chill.  Lets look at the facts shall we:
> 1) Since moving to XSM updates have almost complete stopped.  The
> changes in the last 2 years are all trivial.  (Minus the redesign work.)
> 2) XSM is, speaking only for myself, slow and non-intuitive to work
> with.  Simple news updates take 30 minutes or more due to rebuilds.
> 3) No one has stepped up to the plate to work within the current
> framework, and honestly I haven't heard anyone say they like it or are
> willing to maintain it in XSM.
> 4) Final decisions on what happens with E.org is Raster's call.  I
> haven't just yanked down XSM and done things "my way" because its not my
> call, its ultimately his.  I brought up discussion about switching off
> of XSM over a year ago and the discussion fizzled out on the "leave it
> alone" note, I didn't rock the boat.
> 5) I don't care WHAT we use.  Flat HTML is fast and easy and we'd have
> an updated site in less than a day even with the site on SF.  So long as
> the choice is easier and faster to work with I really am not going to
> press for any particular solution.
> Bottom line, the site gets a noteworthy amount of traffic on a daily
> basis.  No one is updating or maintaining the site.  This wasn't the
> case prior to XSM, I'm not saying it was perfect but work was at least
> happening.  Tell me what you want to move to and I'll do it.  The point
> is here that I'm willing and able to do the work.  Tell me what you want
> and that no one will freak out when I do it and off we go. 
> ... besides, Michael, you know me.  I don't tend to lone-gun things or
> dictate.  I'm here to help, others will help, I believe, if we have a
> better framework, lets just get the site working reasonably again.  
> I've had "Fix E.org" on my TODO list for over 2 years!!!  I'd like to
> finally get on with things.
> benr.
> PS: I think I miss mails like this from you, mej, the most.  You da man
> Michael. ;)
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------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" --------------
The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler)    raster@rasterman.com
Tokyo, Japan (東京 日本)