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Re: [E-devel] Continuing the website saga



I don't know which xsm version e.org runs, nor if the slowness is
because of the machine. But as i use xsm for the get-e.org maintaince i
can say that is has been speeded up a lot since my first contact one year ago.
30 minutes for a simple news post is really not acceptable - but on
get-e.org it is much more faster. Adding a news there takes about 2-3
minutes - sometimes longer - but this has to do with the load of the
machine as it is used for different sites. After you have added a news,
edit and save is much faster! Also it's only the news page which takes a
bit time on saving when adding new entries, the other templates are much faster.
Maybe it is because the news page has 338 entries
(http://www5.get-e.org/Main/News/archive.html).

Greets
Brian 'morlenxus' Miculcy

On Wed, Sep 20, 2006 at 09:23:16PM -0400, Michael Jennings wrote:
> On Wednesday, 20 September 2006, at 16:59:10 (-0700),
> Ben Rockwood wrote:
> 
> > 1) Since moving to XSM updates have almost complete stopped.  The
> > changes in the last 2 years are all trivial.  (Minus the redesign work.)
> 
> I'm trying to forget the past transgressions that may have occurred
> and focus on the future.  You and I have talked about this in person
> as well as on IRC, so you know how I felt originally about everything
> that happened.
> 
> But it's done, and it's over.  Andy has made a solid commitment to not
> only listen to constructive feedback on XSM, but to really drive it in
> the direction we need it to go to fill the current gaps in our
> infrastructure.
> 
> I've come to realize that continuing to beat the same old drum as
> before is just as political and counterproductive as some of what
> inspired my frustration in the first place.  The band has left the
> field; it's time to stop banging the snare.
> 
> > 2) XSM is, speaking only for myself, slow and non-intuitive to work
> > with.  Simple news updates take 30 minutes or more due to rebuilds.
> 
> You're 100% right that it's not instantly intuitive.  That's one of my
> gripes too.  XSM seems to have a very powerful content assembly
> paradigm but lacks an adequate way of presenting this power to the
> uninitiated.  This is an issue that must be addressed, and I think it
> will be.
> 
> Speed is also a common complaint which is about to be rectified.  Andy
> assured us that it's a heckuva lot faster on a local box, and I have
> no reason to doubt his word.  Besides, when the new box is ready, the
> facts will speak for themselves.
> 
> > 3) No one has stepped up to the plate to work within the current
> > framework, and honestly I haven't heard anyone say they like it or
> > are willing to maintain it in XSM.
> 
> I know devilhorns is willing, morlenxus seemed open to it with some
> feature requests added on, and I believe the other get-e.org folks
> have already been using it for quite some time.
> 
> Granted, none of them have taken care of e.org like you did.  You're
> still a very valuable asset to the team.  But we can't keep swimming
> around in the same pool forever; the argument has to end, and we must
> press onward.
> 
> > 4) Final decisions on what happens with E.org is Raster's call.  I
> > haven't just yanked down XSM and done things "my way" because its
> > not my call, its ultimately his.  I brought up discussion about
> > switching off of XSM over a year ago and the discussion fizzled out
> > on the "leave it alone" note, I didn't rock the boat.
> 
> Understood.  But I also understand this:  E.org is better off with you
> than without you.  By far.  But for better or worse, we're using XSM
> right now.  And while I greatly value your past contributions, more
> willingness to cooperate is going to be necessary going forward.
> 
> > 5) I don't care WHAT we use.  Flat HTML is fast and easy and we'd
> > have an updated site in less than a day even with the site on SF.
> > So long as the choice is easier and faster to work with I really am
> > not going to press for any particular solution.
> 
> Then are you willing to at least give XSM another try once it's moved
> to our new server?  What if Andy gave a quicky XSM tutorial on the
> mailing list?  Would that help the UI issue at all?
> 
> > Bottom line, the site gets a noteworthy amount of traffic on a daily
> > basis.  No one is updating or maintaining the site.  This wasn't the
> > case prior to XSM, I'm not saying it was perfect but work was at
> > least happening.  Tell me what you want to move to and I'll do it.
> > The point is here that I'm willing and able to do the work.  Tell me
> > what you want and that no one will freak out when I do it and off we
> > go.
> 
> This seems a lot more cooperative than before. :)  Are you willing to
> give XSM another shot if that's how we decide to do it?
> 
> > ... besides, Michael, you know me.  I don't tend to lone-gun things
> > or dictate.  I'm here to help, others will help, I believe, if we
> > have a better framework, lets just get the site working reasonably
> > again.  I've had "Fix E.org" on my TODO list for over 2 years!!!
> > I'd like to finally get on with things.
> 
> Here's another idea.  If you're not wanting to work with XSM, perhaps
> you could create/edit pages in raw HTML and have someone else enter
> them into XSM for you.  Would that work?
> 
> > PS: I think I miss mails like this from you, mej, the most.  You da man
> > Michael. ;)
> 
> I try. :-)
> 
> Michael
> 
> -- 
> Michael Jennings (a.k.a. KainX)  http://www.kainx.org/  <mej@kainx.org>
> n + 1, Inc., http://www.nplus1.net/       Author, Eterm (www.eterm.org)
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