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Re: [E-devel] website maintainers needed



On Tue, 12 Sep 2006 08:15:45 +0900
Carsten Haitzler (The Rasterman) <raster@rasterman.com> wrote:

> On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 21:52:55 +0300 Eugen Minciu <minciue@gmail.com> babbled:
> 
> > On Mon, 11 Sep 2006 14:04:22 -0400
> > Michael Jennings <e-devel@kainx.org> wrote:
> > 
> > > On Monday, 11 September 2006, at 15:49:22 (+0300),
> > > Eugen Minciu wrote:
> > > 
> > > > There's www.enlightenment.org and www.e-develop.org and
> > > > www.get-e.org. This really seems like a far stretch to me, imho
> > > > there should be just one www.enlightenment.org
> > > 
> > > edevelop.org is geared toward developers, not users.  I agree that
> > > there should not be a get-e.org, but there is.  It's far more
> > > political than practical (as to why it exists), but the bottom line is
> > > this:  Those who contribute to get-e refuse to contribute to
> > > enlightenment.org, and that's their choice.
> > > 
> > > > This CMS you guys are using is ... not so good (to put it
> > > > lightly). Generally, one probably doesn't need a CMS but you do need
> > > > some sort of way to edit content quickly.
> > > 
> > > It does have the advantage of serving static pages.  I couldn't name
> > > any other advantages, though.  Then again, no one has seen fit to
> > > provide me (or a number of other developers, from what I gather) with
> > > an account, so...
> > > 
> > 
> > I can cache pages with Rails (quite easily). That should pretty much give you
> > the same speed and is better because it keeps the data in the database too.
> > 
> > We could also do a dozen things which would take a million years to do with
> > something like PHP. There is lots of code already written for Rails, which
> > can easily be plugged in.
> 
> and there is even more code already done in php - as it's much more mature and
> wide-spread. most of the cms's and wiki's use it. i don't think this is a

Yes but everyone is implementing the same things over and over again. Rails has plugins which can load functionality and generators which create code for you and this allows you to reuse other people's code in your application. 

This is what I meant when I said easily plugged in. You literally plug it in in minutes, sometimes seconds.

> decent argument for OUR NEEDS. this is not about arguing the technical
> potential of one language vs another. this is about making e.org more
> accessible to 1. readers (re-arrange navigation, pages etc. etc.) and 2. more
> accessible to contributors. let's not make this a "my language/cms/whatever is
> better than yours" debate.
> 
> let's focus on bringing out the REAL ISSUES first - is it simply minor things
> that xsm needs added/changed/fixed? will it be fixed by a massive speedup to
> the publish process? is it something that xsm will need a mountain of work done
> to make it better for us (and resources to do that work are slim) so it might
> be better to look at alternate solutions?

I only asked if we should do this, never said that we should. If you decide that XSM doesn't cut it and you have to work a ton to get it to do the stuff you want, the nice thing about Rails is that (from a developer point of view) it scales. 

We start off with a small XSM-like site (which should just take a couple of weeks to develop). 

Decent user registration and management. 
Easy to setup rights. 
Easy to add/edit/remove content (whatever you think that means). 
Use any common DB you want (even SQLite) or just plain files, if you like that better.

You can add features to your heart's desire and applications don't grow into unamangeable monsters (like some PHP apps do). Conventions keep the code clean.
 
> so let's focus on what is the real problem - not jumping to "let's write a cms!
> let's use wiki X, lets use cms Y".
> 
Absolutely! I'm just saying that if you guys decide not to use XSM anymore, developing a RoR based application might be a solution and I'd be interested in helping you guys out with that.

Cheers,
Eugen.

> > > > I have some experience with Ruby on Rails so I'm thinking I could
> > > > create your website and so on. If you want this done quickly, you'll
> > > > probably have to go for either XSM or another CMS.
> > > > 
> > > > If not, I could write something that's tailored for your needs.
> > > 
> > > Thanks, but I think we'd rather not.  Not many of us know or use Ruby,
> > > and some of the most fundamental Ruby software (Rake!) is broken.  I'd
> > > rather stick with something more mature and more supported by the
> > > developers.
> > > 
> > 
> > You've told me this before. Rake works for me and just about anyone else I
> > know. True, I use gems but I've used debian packages in the past and it still
> > works fine. What exactly is wrong with it?
> > 
> > IIRC you had problems of some kind with building it. I've used it from debian
> > packages, *buntu packages and I've used a FreeBSD port so other people don't
> > seem to have this problem (or they seem to have packages)
> > 
> > Ruby is 11 years old. It's as stable as stable gets.
> > 
> > I need Rake to develop but you guys shouldn't need it to deploy. It's also
> > not part of the Ruby distribution so I don't see why you should blame Ruby
> > for your issues with Rake. And it's not 'fundamental' in any way, if you ask
> > me.
> > 
> > Now about Rails. It's pretty new but catchy as hell, there are a lot of
> > developers out there already. It lets you do very advanced stuff in very
> > simple ways. It structures web development by design. And most of all, it's a
> > framework, not just a language or a CMS. As for not many of you guys using
> > Ruby, you could create a separate module in the repo to store the site. That
> > should make it pretty easy for anyone to contribute to the site and improve
> > it.
> > 
> > > 
> > > On Monday, 11 September 2006, at 08:51:54 (-0500),
> > > brian.mattern@gmail.com wrote:
> > > 
> > > > I like this idea. Personally, I was never clear on where either of
> > > > the two 'other' domains came from. They just popped up and started
> > > > serving content.
> > > 
> > > Pet projects.
> > > 
> > > > I'm assuming two different sets of people were frustrated with the
> > > > limitations of hosting e.org on sf.net and independently went about
> > > > rectifying things. (I'm not saying theres anything wrong with that
> > > > :) )
> > > 
> > > Not exactly, but close enough.
> > > 
> > > Like I said, it was more political than practical.
> > > 
> > > Michael
> > > 
> > > -- 
> > > Michael Jennings (a.k.a. KainX)  http://www.kainx.org/  <mej@kainx.org>
> > > n + 1, Inc., http://www.nplus1.net/       Author, Eterm (www.eterm.org)
> > > -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >  "If we keep silent, if we mass-defect, these very rocks will scream,
> > >   'God is not a secret to be kept!'  And would I wash my hands again?
> > >   Would I deny my Savior when He hung inside the public square?  Did
> > >   not my silence put Him there?"                           -- Newsboys
> > > 
> > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
> > > Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job
> > > easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache
> > > Geronimo
> > > http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642
> > > _______________________________________________ enlightenment-devel mailing
> > > list enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
> > 
> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security?
> > Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier
> > Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo
> > http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642
> > _______________________________________________
> > enlightenment-devel mailing list
> > enlightenment-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/enlightenment-devel
> > 
> 
> 
> -- 
> ------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" --------------
> The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler)    raster@rasterman.com
> 裸好多
> Tokyo, Japan (東京 日本)