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Re: [E-devel] cvs, servers and stuff.

On Sat, 19 Aug 2006 15:36:55 -0400 Lyle Kempler <term-e1@twistedpath.org>

definitely. this is not about removing things - but maybe shuffling visibility
of things like cvs from first port of call, to last port of call, and encourage
users to use alternate mechanisms to get the code that is lighter on our
resources. in addition if these mechanisms align with our final distribution
mechanism (tarball + configure + make + make install) we get to heavily test it
now - as opposed to later.

> * Laurence Vanek (lvanek@charter.net) wrote:
> > Lyle Kempler wrote:
> > > Looking at get-e.org, the download page points to the E17 User's
> > > Guide, which starts with "Installing from CVS". If we instead
> > > changed the download page to "download this script and run it,
> > > you'll need wget and tar and bzip2 and ..", then new users could
> > > convert over without even having to concern themselves about CVS. If
> > > the script had the ability to download only a portion of the tree --
> > > say, "minimal" vs "gadgets" vs "full", etc -- that might also
> > > increase everyone's milage. I think a lot of this is people just get
> > > everything because they're not familar enough to know what they need
> > > or what might be cool (of course this all goes back to packaging, no
> > > official recent releases.. etc). The script could even check
> > > dependencies (which may lower the number of questions we get). IIRC,
> > > someone may have even proposed this a long time ago..
> > so these scripts would build all EFL & some set of applications (who
> > decides what applications?).  Of course we are assuming that these all
> > build without issue, as in "alice in wonderland".  I have no trust in
> > scripts for the entire build process when we are talking about
> > pre-alpha software.
> Why is it when we suggest convienence solutions, people respond
> defensively? This is not an attack on your ability to keep using
> anoncvs, building things by hand, or whatever your specific desired
> working methodology is. Enlightenment is about providing you with
> _options_. The script _could_ feasibly (easily) simply have a
> --download-only feature. It _could_ feasibly give up as soon as an error
> is found, hell, if we had warningless builds, it _could_ feasibly tell
> GCC to stop on a warning. Or you could simply not use those settings.
> You don't have to trust anything you don't want to.
> But, I suspect (and I'll say it again, it's a guess) that a lot of users
> are willing to try it, and with some practice, we might be able to get a
> lot of milage out of it. If that's not what you're after, then keep
> using anoncvs or rsync or the freedesktop tarballs, and build it
> yourself.
> > > IMO (and it's a somewhat uninformed one as of late), most users want
> > > access to "product" and the obstacles to installation send them
> > > looking to anoncvs.
> > You have taken a poll of what all users want?
> I expected "it's a somewhat uninformed one as of late" to implicitly
> translate to a response of "no, I haven't taken a poll of what all users
> want". Read what I said; you shouldn't have to ask that.
> > Some of us (users) are trying to contribute by staying close to the
> > development by building, from scratch, on the various Linux O/S
> > flavors to quickly surface issues.  The hope is that it aids the
> > cause.  Admittedly, perhaps we are not your eventual std end users.
> You say it for me: "some of us". I don't think anyone, the whole context
> of the conversation, has ever wanted to prevent you from contributing,
> however you achieve that. My suggesting tarballs, or any of the other
> suggestions made by others, are an attempt to improve performance and
> possibly make things easier for those who are interested. No more.
> > Eventually, when e17 is released I will be working with rpm's on this
> > Fedora Core system.  For now I build from scratch.
> And that's fine -- finding bugs is a huge advantage of open source
> software, and we all welcome the help. Don't take these suggestions as
> an affront to that.
> > > I'd like to believe that, though instant access to changes is
> > > alluring, (just look at news sites).. :)
> > For me, I consider it more than alluring.
> Relax; we're not raising the price. :)
> term
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The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler)    raster@rasterman.com
Tokyo, Japan (東京 日本)