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Re: [E-devel] cvs, servers and stuff.

On Mon, 14 Aug 2006 23:51:19 +0100 Shish <shish@shish.is-a-geek.net> babbled:

> > It's not true.  SVN requires a lot more overhead (including Apache
> > with SVN and DAV modules),
> They aren't required, they just make things easier. You can use a
> standalone svn daemon, or AFAIK have a client side client and server
> side client who talk over SSH (similar to rsync's two-client mode?).
> I've only ever used Apache + mod_svn myself though.
> Even if you do go the apache + mod_svn route, since when was apache
> known for being bloated and slow? (Sure it's slower than things like
> lighttpd, but even with all the bloat turned on the apache overhead is
> still tiny compared to the processor time spent getting actual work
> done)
> > uses a BDB backend (you remember your love of BDB, right?)
> Since a few years ago, it's been able to use a filesystem based
> database, which I've never had problems with (BDB kept me away from
> SVN for a while too, since it kept giving me headaches...)
> > and requires DOUBLE the amount of disk space for a
> > checkout.  Yes, I said double.
> Having a local copy of the unmodified source makes things like taking
> diffs or reverting changes *much* faster, and zero load on the server.

load on the sever here isnt important - u devs cause very little/no load - its
anon users that kill things. :) but yes - it is a good point... but. double the

> Disk space shouldn't be much of an issue with today's drives; Raster's
> point about running rsync on his local checkout will indeed use twice
> the bandwidth if it's done the naive way, but I'm sure there are some
> optimisations that could be done. (I'm interested in knowing why
> someone would want to rsync their local copy anyway, rather than
> checking into the server on one box and checking out elsewhere)

ok- double the bandwidth and double the scan time. rsync has to scan a lot
more files and in fact the scan of my files takes more time than the sync. yes
- i disabled checksumming because that just makes it intolerable.

why rsync? do you have more than computer? how do you copy your email, code,
files, porn, music etc. to a new system? if it s laptop and doesnt life on
your network all the time for example? rsync.

i rsync msot of my dot-files and homedir between desktop, laptop, work etc.
etc. etc. - this way all my files, work, state, notes, wallpapers, config,
email, music, etc. etc. - follow me form one system to another - seamlessly
(well with a single rsync) and i am not tethered to a lan and nfs - i can just
continue where i left on on my laptop on a plane, train, in the airport, on a
park bench, at work, and then back home to my desktop, over to the couch in the
living room - whereever i go - onto whatever machine i may use, my "digital
life" follows me. i can just keep doing what i was doing. ESPECIALLY important
is that my source code follows me - thus my cvs checkouts. this acts also as a
backup mechanism as i also rsync to a central sever 2 or more times a day - and
a copy of my data exists on several systems - if i lose a disk - not a big
problem. i have several backups - several of them even "offsite" :)

if you don't have at least a desktop and a laptop and have never tried working
offline - you wont understand - but rsync is the ultimate tool for this kind of
semi connected/disconnected kind of independent working ability.

> > Furthermore, branching and tagging
> > don't really exist for SVN (it uses "copies" which, while they may be
> > zero overhead on the server, are murder on the checkout).
> I've found tagging much cleaner, and you don't need to check anything
> out at all:
> svn cp http://server/project/trunk http://server/project/tags/0.4.2
> (if you want to retroactively tag an old version of the trunk, just
> add "-r <revision number>" before the trunk URL). Practically zero
> overhead on the server (all it stores in the copy is a reference to the
> trunk filename and revision), and zero overhead on the client.
> Branching I've only experimented with, but don't use regularly enough
> to say whether it's better or worse than CVS's.
> > And last I checked, you could not keep your history.
> The cvs2svn script seems to have worked fine for other large, active
> projects (mplayer, gaim, and inkscape are the ones in my src folder)
> Unfortunately for the topic at hand, the only thing I can't say for
> certain is "SVN is better at dealing with server-killing loads caused
> by vast numbers of anon checkouts". Using my otherwise unused 200MHz
> test server, browsing the HTTP interface is as fast as browsing plain
> text files, but I don't know if it'll stay that fast with thousands of
> users at once...
>     -- Shish
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
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------------- Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" --------------
The Rasterman (Carsten Haitzler)    raster@rasterman.com
Tokyo, Japan (東京 日本)